June 15, 2021
Dean Koontz: How Dogs Changed My Life | Dogs Sniff Out Coronavirus | Dog Edition #22

International best-selling author Dean Koontz churns out blockbuster stories every few months. Most feature dogs as main or supporting characters. Why?

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Creative genius Dean Koontz talks about his muse: Trixie, his Golden Retriever. Then, we follow our noses to meet some special pooches who can sniff out Coronavirus.

Dean Koontz: How dogs changed my life

Dean Koontz writes international suspense bestsellers by habit ... and his massive body of work is bristling with furry faces and friendly wags. Why? Koontz joins us to share how dogs -- particularly a Golden Retriever named Trixie -- inspire him. Whether a major or minor character in life or fiction, dogs teach Koontz things no human ever could. Also discussed is his long-time support for Canine Companions for Independence ... and his love for his wife, business partner, and co-author, Gerda.

Sniffing out Coronavirus

Dogs have 300,000,000 olfactory receptors in their noses. Is it any wonder they know what COVID-19 smells like? As the pandemic rages, some very special dogs with very sensitive snouts may be our first line of defense. Dogs are training to sniff out COVID-19 in countries around the globe. As the world adjusts to a new normal, dogs may be screening us at airports and other important locations. But what does it take to make an accurate COVID sniffer dog? And how does the science behind it work?

Dean Koontz

International bestselling author Dean Koontz has written more than 105 novels, a number of novellas and short stories, and has sold over 500 million copies to date. Fourteen of his novels have risen to number one on the New York Times hardcover bestseller list, making him one of only a dozen writers ever to have achieved that milestone. After graduating from Shippensburg State College Dean Koontz wrote nights and weekends around other jobs to launch his career as an author. With the support of his wife Gerda, Dean eventually made his mark and she eventually quit her job to run the business end of her husband’s writing career. The couple live in Southern California with their golden retriever, Elsa, and the enduring spirit of their goldens now passed, Trixie and Anna.





Anne-Lise Chaber

Dr Anne-Lise Chaber co-ordinates the Australian of an international research alliance into COVID sniffer dogs, led out of the National Veterinary School in Alfort, France. She is a One Health expert at Adelaide University's School of Animal and Veterinary Sciences who focuses on cross-disciplinary approach to Human, Animal and Ecosystem Health. After graduating from the Veterinary Faculty at the University of Liège in Belgium, she obtained a Master of Science from the Royal Veterinary College and the Zoological Society of London and pursued her graduate training with a PhD on disease detection and management at the wildlife-livestock-human interface with the ULg. Anne-Lise has ten years of practical experience as a field epidemiologist in England, Botswana and the United Arab Emirates.

Alex Withers

Alex Withers is a dog Handler and Senior Firefighter with the Metropolitan fire service South Australia and the SA Urban Search and Rescue Task Force. He's working with researchers from the School of Animal and Veterinary Sciences at the University of Adelaide to train sniffer dogs to detect COVID-19 in people. The Adelaide study is part of an international research effort aimed at training COVID-19 detection dogs who could be used to screen people for coronavirus such as at airports, hospitals or quarantine facilities.





Here’s What We Found at The Hydrant

Canine couture: Badgley Mischka teams up with K9Wear for first ever dog capsule collection

Sensory gardens open at Greyhound rescue ‘Greysland’

8-year-old sells prized Pokemon cards to pay for sick dog’s vet bill 


>> James Jacobson: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm James Jacobson in Hawaii. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:00:09] And I'm Pamela Lorence in San Francisco. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:00:11] And I'm Caroline Winter in Adelaide. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:00:13] Welcome to Dog Edition, the first show designed for you to listen to while you walk your dogs. Today we have a conversation with best-selling author, Dean Koontz. I got to sit down with him last week for an extended conversation, and we're going to hear some of that on today's episode of Dog Edition. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:00:34] And we're also going to meet some very special dogs training to become the first line of defense in sniffing out COVID-19.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:00:42] No more of the swabs up the nose. I like that. Okay. And as always stop by the hydrant with us at the end of the show for a rundown on some of the doggy headlines that captured our attention this week.

>> James Jacobson: [00:00:54] So if you love dogs as much as we do, pause what you're doing, leash up your pup, and let's take a walk. We've got a lot to talk about on today's episode of Dog Edition. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:01:07] Hey pepper. Want to go for a walk? A conversation with international bestselling author, Dean Koontz can go in any number of directions considering his long and decorated career. You might ask about his more than 105 novels or his many novellas and collections of short stories. After all, over 500 million copies of his work have been sold and his career has spanned six decades. Here at Dog Podcast Network, we wanted to know about the many times dogs have shown up in this author's incredible body of work. And why. 

>> Dean Koontz: [00:01:46] I've written a lot about dogs. I started writing about dogs before I had one. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:01:51] The idea to write about dogs wasn't born out of a childhood experience. Dean had limited exposure to dogs growing up. In fact, he recalls a particularly negative experience with a family dog.

>> Dean Koontz: [00:02:08] We had two dogs for very brief periods when I was a child, but we were a very poor family and it was country and the dog wasn't in the house. And in the one case the dog didn't last more than a week because it's name was Tiny. And Tiny weighed 120 pounds when we got him and I was out playing with Tiny and he wrapped his chain around my neck and I was about five or six and that dog was strangling me and didn't know it. My mother looked out a window and saw it and came running out and got me out of the chain. I had link marks around my neck for awhile. She insisted Tiny is gone. So Tiny was gone.

>> James Jacobson: [00:02:55] The incident did not diminish his fascination with dogs. He says he's always admired dogs, but he didn't have one in his life when he was writing his 1987 suspense novel, Watchers.

>> Dean Koontz: [00:03:07] And this idea for Watchers came to me and it was irresistible, the idea of a dog that comes out of the laboratory of enhanced intelligence experiments. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:03:16] Watchers is the story of Travis Cornell, a former Delta Force Operator who struggles with the meaning of his life. While out exploring a canyon near his home, he encounters two genetically engineered creatures that have escaped from a top secret government laboratory. One is a magnificent golden retriever of astonishing intelligence. The other is a hybrid monster with a brutally violent nature.

>> Dean Koontz: [00:03:45] It was a very emotional book, which I think is one of the reasons it's done so well over the years. Uh, I think we're past 14 million copies of that book  have sold over time. Uh, and it never goes out of a print. Uh, and it was a joy to write. I, I heard so much feedback from dog owners that I had gotten the dog in Watchers, so right. That, that of course motivates you to want to write about dogs some more because you want if, if readers said, Hey, did that really well? You think, oh good then maybe I'll try that again. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:04:19] Watchers established Dean Koontz as a best-selling author. And one who would go on to prominently feature dogs in other books. One book in particular impacted his personal life, as well as his professional life.

>> Dean Koontz: [00:04:35] It was not a long time after that, uh, just a couple of few books that later that I wrote a book called Midnight, and this is how it's, this is how the dog thing moved in my professional life. And also personal life. I was looking for something unusual with a character. And I read this article about Canine Companions for Independence, and I thought, oh, that will increase the suspense a lot, if there's a secondary character in story thread. This town that's under siege, there's a man in a wheelchair that you come to like, and he's got this assistance dog. Right. And that ups the tension in that storyline. After that book got published, it was the first book I ever had written that went to number one. And the people at Canine Companions came and said, Hey, we love seeing our name in the book. When the paperback comes out, would you put our address and a little bit about us in it. So I said, sure. And they invited us to come down there and see them. And we did, and we were absolutely captivated. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:05:44] Canine Companions for Independence or CCI has been providing service dogs to individuals with disabilities at no cost since 1975. Dean has supported the organization since the early 1990s, after the release of Midnight. Dean and his wife, Gerda adopted a Canine Companions release dog named Trixie, a golden retriever. 

>> Dean Koontz: [00:06:09] And everything I thought I knew about dogs, I didn't know, but there was so much I didn't know until one was sharing our life. And they became as magical as I already thought dogs were. They were far more magical than I ever realized. Uh, Trixie was actually in service as an assistance dog to a young lady who lost both legs in a traffic accident. Then, Trixie developed an elbow problem and had to be taken out of service and came to live with us. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:06:41] Dean is the first to admit that he and his wife are workaholics. It's what prevented them from bringing a dog into their lives sooner. But dogs have a way of transforming our lives for the better and Trixie soon made it known that working late would not be tolerated. 

>> Dean Koontz: [00:07:01] When Trixie came to live with us, I worked, I started in the morning and at work till seven o'clock at night and we'd have dinner. Gerda would be busy running the business end of things. She worked the same hours. Uh, Trixie wasn't there a couple of few days, a week, less than a week. And at five o'clock because I think, oh, dogs have a clock in their head. Right. It's bizarre, but they know when it's feeding time and they know they love their routine. And so at five o'clock, she would come around the edge of my desk and look at me as I'm sitting there typing and she'd stare at me and, and they can give a pretty meaningful stare yet. And I would look at her and smile cute. After about two days of that, when she saw, uh, staring wasn't working, uh, she, she came over and I was working on the keyboard. She put her head under my arm and threw my hand off the keyboard and she kept it up. So I stopped that night. The next night, five o'clock she came up didn't even wait came up through my hand up. And after several days of this, I said, okay, she's telling me I need more time than you're giving me. That was the end of working until seven o'clock.

>> James Jacobson: [00:08:25] Living with a dog, with Trixie, gave Dean new perspective. Dog walks became moments of wonder as he began to see the world as Trixie did. He noticed the flowers that she lingered near and plants that she showed an interest in. All of these things, he would have stroll by without noticing before Trixie. He began to explore more of that human dog bond in his work.

>> Dean Koontz: [00:08:52] So I frequently include dogs sometimes as one of the major characters, sometimes as a supporting role. Uh, I just had a book out last year, Devoted, in which I visit the idea of the human dog bond and say it is so mysterious and has been going on for so many thousands of years, that there is a possibility of one day it will evolve into something more wondrous than we can ever imagine.

>> James Jacobson: [00:09:19] Trixie and Dean shared a deep connection. Trixie even appears as co-author of some of his books. After her death, Dean brought home Anna. And when she passed, Canine Companions reached out once again to Dean and Gerda. 

>> Dean Koontz: [00:09:37] The people from CCI came up for a lunch and, uh, and we were sitting talking and they said, we know you're, what your like and it's gonna be months yet till you can take another dog. But we do have one that needs a home if you know anybody. And she held up her phone with the picture of Elsa and Gerda and I both burst into tears. And, you know, I think the first time they think it's like a betrayal of the dog you lost and of course it isn't, but that's, what's kind of in your mind.

>> James Jacobson: [00:10:09] But his experience with Trixie was most formative. 

>> Dean Koontz: [00:10:13] There is something mystical about that relationship, how profoundly it changed me and how much beauty it brought into our lives. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:10:24] He captured that beauty in his memoir, A Big Little Life. It is a loving portrait of life with Trixie and her greatest gifts. Her intelligence, her joy and her uncanny knack for living in the moment.

>> Dean Koontz: [00:10:39] And it really comes down to this, our relationship with dogs, your relationship with a good dog, even any human relationship, no matter how wonderful it is and how loving it is has its ups and downs. It has its moments of contention and disagreement. With the good dog there isn't any of that with the good dog it's just this kind of pure, wonderful, happy relationship that goes on far too short. And that is a kind of um miraculous thing. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:11:13] That was, um, that was such a beautiful interview. I had absolutely no idea that this enormous bestselling author had such a connection to dogs. What was it like to meet him? 

>> James Jacobson: [00:11:24] Oh, he was awesome. He was gracious. And obviously we did this via video technology and I got to meet his dog, Elsa, who was dutifully by his side throughout the interview, kept nudging him, you know, trying to get a little belly scratch and a little chin rub. And, uh, in the process Dean had, uh, dog fur that he had to occasionally remove from his mouth because, you know, he was just fur-tied. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:11:49] Fur-tied. All right. All right. Back to the puns. I get it. Um, oh, and I just want to point out that if you're anything like me and you like your suspense in smaller doses, season two of his short story series, Nameless is out from Amazon Original Stories. Season one was so good. Uh, oh. And it's free for Amazon Prime Members. So there's that. And if you want to hear more from Dean Koontz uh, you can hear the entire conversation on another Dog Podcast Network show, The Long Leash. That's coming out soon, right? 

>> James Jacobson: [00:12:22] That is coming out this week. You can hear the extended conversation and get to hear things from Dean that I don't think he has shared anywhere else.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:12:33] Well, that story in itself just left me wanting more. So I'll be tuning in. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:12:37] We're going to take a break, but we'll be right back. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:12:39] You're listening to Dog Edition. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:12:42] Welcome back to Dog Edition. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:12:43] As the COVID-19 pandemic continues to ravage communities and countries worldwide, it's possible that some very special dogs and their sensitive snouts could become the first line of defense against the virus. That's because across the globe, dogs are being trained to sniff out COVID-19 using their incredible sense of smell. Already, some dogs are being used in public places in France and also at airports in the United Arab Emirates. But the aim is that they become commonplace in detecting the virus across the globe. We wanted to know just what it takes to make a COVID sniffer dog and how the science behind it all works. So Caro went along for a training session with some talented pooches in Australia to find out.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:13:41] Here in this busy airport, there's a real buzz. While passengers and planes come and go, people are milling around while announcements blare over the loudspeaker and among the travelers with their bags lined up at security, there were dogs, COVID sniffer dogs to be exact.

>> Alex Withers: [00:14:01] So because we've been playing lots of tricks on these dogs, he has to learn to use his nose. And this is what we want to do. We want him to solve the problem using his nose.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:14:15] But this isn't really an airport. It's a hallway at Adelaide University where South Australian firefighter and dog trainer Alex Withers is putting some Labradors through their paces in sniffing out the deadly coronavirus. 

>> Alex Withers: [00:14:27] Yes. So what we've got is we've got two people here that we've planted our training odor on. All right, so we've got our first dog. This is Stany Boy. So that was a nice, nice clean uh conditioned response. And that's what we're looking for. We don't want the dogs to be active around the people. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:14:52] After running down the line of volunteer airline passengers, two year old, Stan sits confidently and stares at a young girl with a backpack. That's his cue that he can smell COVID-19. And so the happy go lucky black lab is rewarded with pats and treats for a job, well done.

>> Alex Withers: [00:15:10] I guess the buzz from training a dog and watching those lessons come together in seeing the dog make a success is you can, you just can't beat it. What can I say it, it really makes your day. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:15:22] Stan is one of 15 Australian border force detector dogs that have spent the past few months learning to recognize a very distinct odor from the underarm sweat samples of COVID positive patients. While the researchers aren't sure exactly what volatile organic compound or compounds the dogs can smell, the 300 million olfactory receptors in their noses are proving invaluable. 

>> Anne-Lise Chaber : [00:15:47] I think they are going to be an incredible tool. Um, I'm just thinking in any countries where they actually lack, um, laboratories, or they cannot test people in a, in a very rapid way. Um, it's could be a major help. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:16:02] Dr. Anne-Lise Chaber from Adelaide University School of Animal and Veterinary Sciences is leading the Australian arm of an international alliance in training COVID sniffer dogs.

>> Anne-Lise Chaber : [00:16:12] We actually, I'm part of a big collaboration of 15 countries now. And we are all sharing data and resources. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:16:20] That CoLab includes France, the United Arab Emirates, Canada, Chile, Belgium, and the UK among others. While other countries like the U S are doing their own trials.

>> Anne-Lise Chaber : [00:16:31] I wanted to, um, to try to help finding a screening tool for COVID that was fast and reliable.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:16:41] Well, so far that's been the case.

>> Alex Withers: [00:16:45] It was an excellent result. He transitioned beautifully and his alert was nice. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:16:49] Not only do sniffer dogs work faster and are cheaper than using PCR tests, that's those saliva swabs we're all familiar with, but the trials have found the dogs can detect COVID-19 before a positive reading shows up and before someone shows symptoms. 

>> Anne-Lise Chaber : [00:17:05] What we should see that we have to do a lot of tests in, um, in series or in parallels and the dog is a very good tool is much better than the antigenic, uh, tests or saliva tests that are currently being used in some countries. So I don't think is better than PCR. I think it's a good complimentary tool. With pc, with PCR and what is very good is that the dog can detect people in incubation. And that's true that no other test can do that.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:17:34] The idea being the dogs and the saliva tests will work in tandem to accurately detect the virus. Just how the dogs will be deployed, will depend on each country's needs. In places where there are large outbreaks, like France, for example, they're being taken to crowded public spaces to sniff out COVID carriers. While the United Arab Emirates has the dog screening airline passengers on arrival. That's Australia's plan too, and exactly why this stunt airport has been created as a training ground.

>> Alex Withers: [00:18:03] So what we're trying to do is we're trying to simulate people standing in a queue waiting for passport control. And what have you. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:18:11] Training sniffer dogs to pick out COVID-19 follows the same principle as other odors. And as Alex Withers explains it's about getting them used to a particular smell before you start adding layers of complexity. 

>> Alex Withers: [00:18:23] It could be anything, it could be explosives or drugs would be common ones, or it could be fruit for biosecurity. Um, and we then got the dogs to do the same principle, pick that particular odor in a lineup of kinds. And then we increased the difficulty of that searching. So the number of cones, and we'd also add distractors in there other smells. Um, also blank runs where there was nothing to find. So in reality, there's a lot of runs where or searches where you find nothing so the dogs have to be used to that. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:18:56] Keeping across the ever-changing science and variants has been a challenge, but the dogs are up to the task and to understand how good and useful the tests actually are, researchers are measuring two things, sensitivity and specificity. 

>> Anne-Lise Chaber : [00:19:11] So our dog are 96.5% sensitive and 98.1% specific. So sensitive is that, um, when someone is infected is, um, percentage of time that the dog is actually a really going to pick this person saying, yes, this person is diseased and specific is when the person is not affected. So dog is going to say, no, it's not affected. So it's giving the right answer. So, yeah, that's very good result, but that is in control settings.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:19:40] While results will vary in the real world, and there are more trials to go, Anne-Lise Chaber is excited about what this will mean, not just for detecting COVID, but other viruses in the future.

>> Anne-Lise Chaber : [00:19:52] It means that we can have a new tool to actually screen people. And we're speaking about COVID, but it could be other disease. We know that animals and dogs have been used for other diseases, not in operational settings, but we know it's feasible. So I think it's going to, um, allow us to have another tool to screen a lot of people in a very short period of time and that what we need, because we've got many human on the planet. And, um, I don't think that's going to be the last pandemic. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:20:20] Something that looked impossible at the start for this team is now becoming a reality and all agree it's about them doing their little bit for the greater good. 

>> Alex Withers: [00:20:30] Well, it's been an honor actually, um, to be able to, uh, use some of the skills that I've been lucky enough to have, and yeah, I'm honored that I'm part of the project and very humbled that we can maybe play a little part, uh, here in Australia.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:20:45] Well, I, I love this story and especially, you know, I have a daughter who's at Boston University and they've been able to keep students on campus because they test them every two to three days with the swabs in the nose. And imagine if they had you know, just a bunch of dogs running around campus sniffing out COVID I think it would be wonderful. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:21:06] Way less painful, a lot more fun. And that would be a great thing. You think, or that you think we can start seeing that. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:21:14] I hope so. They bring dogs on campus during finals to relax. You know, relax students. I think a little double duty, maybe for some of these dogs, that would be great. Why not? 

>> James Jacobson: [00:21:26] Great application for that. Incredible nose that dogs are gifted with.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:21:31] Yes, 300 million olfactory senses. I can't even imagine, but they managed to really hone in and smell exactly the compound that scientists had been looking for. So, um, you know, yay to that I say. Less swabs, more dogs. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:21:46] Totally. Well, let's head over to the hydrant for a chat about some of the hound headlines that we have come across this week. What did you see this week? 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:21:57] So I was scrolling through some news stories and something caught my eye because it took me right back to my wedding day. I just celebrated my 23rd wedding anniversary and my wedding gown was designed by Badgley Mischka, who's known for these very elaborate and beautiful, um, beaded dresses, uh, is actually now designing a line for dogs. Which is so thrilling to me. So it started with this floral dress that they designed and a matching dress for dogs. And now of course, they're going to extend into all, all sorts of, of dog products and, uh, and they're very fancy. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:22:36] Very chi chi dog fashion. I love it. Yes. Not, not just a little like vest, but like a fat, how much are these going to cost?

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:22:44] Well, you know, I, I dug into that a little bit and the, the first design that they released was a, uh, harness for dogs. And the harness was being sold for $175. But, but all of the, all of the proceeds from those purchases were being donated to North Shore Animal League. So, you know, that's, that's a nice thing.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:23:05] So K9 could share with, you know, a heart. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:23:09] Yes, exactly. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:23:10] All for a good cause. What are you seeing Caro? 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:23:15] Well, my find this week is about sensory gardens. So that's those specially created gardens, uh, that, you know, you can experience through the five senses, touch, sight, scent, taste, and of course, hearing. Now I hadn't thought about creating one of these for dogs. Um, but in Australia, in the state of New South Wales, they've created five unique gardens at, you ready, Greys Land, which is a Greyhound rescue rehab and rehoming center. And we know greyhounds who have been in the racing industry, have a little experience really out in the outside world. You know, their life is all about training and racing and, and lots of hours left on their own. Um, so when they arrived somewhere like Greys Land and they experience human kindness often for the first time and, and to try and, um, bring in, you know, that positive reinforcement before they're re homed. This, uh, this, uh, re homing center has decided that these gardens, um, are going to help with that. So there's three sensory gardens, one training garden, and one buddy garden. I'm not quite sure what that is, but I'm guessing that it's where you, I don't know, hang out and have a pooch beer with your, with your buddy. Um, but yeah, but it's using, you know, objects and plants and other and surfaces that will stimulate all the sensors.

>> James Jacobson: [00:24:34] I love it. And dogs are re, dogs are so good at using more senses in more ways than we do in an average day. And so that's great. I need to visit Greys Land. Yeah. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:24:46] Greys Land. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:24:47] Need to send you there. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:24:49] I wonder if they piping Elvis music through the speakers? 

>> James Jacobson: [00:24:54] I don't know. I'm a Hound Dog. Oh, what's the, what's the Elvis song. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:24:59] Yeah, You Ain't Nothing But a Hound Dog. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:25:01] You Ain't Nothing But a Hound Dog. Well, I have been drawn to an eight year old boy in Lebanon, Virginia. His name is Bryson Kliemann, I think. And he had throughout his young years collected a pretty impressive Pokemon card collection. However, he decided that he had to sell it because his dog was diagnosed with Parvo. And they had some big vet bills. So he sat up a little stand to sell his Pokemon cards so he could raise funds for the Parvo treatment. And of course it got on social media and lots of people contributed money and services to help cover the vet bills. And it's a happy ending. He got to keep his Pokemon card, got some new ones and the dog got the attention it needed. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:25:55] That's a wonderful story. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:25:56] That is, and that is a big, big deal for a young kid to give up their Pokemon cards that easily. I know from, uh, from experience and from all the little kids on my block that they don't let go of those easily.

>> James Jacobson: [00:26:13] He's such a cute kid. We will put a link in the show notes because you have to see him set up on his yard with his box of Pokemon cards, uh, that he's about to sell. Um, but it's pretty amazing. It's a touching story and we'll have links in the show notes. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:26:28] Well, that's all that we have for you today. Thanks for bringing Dog Edition along with you on your walk today. Chances are that before our next episode, you and your dog will be taking a walk and we have something else for you to listen to. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:26:42] If you're interested in hearing more from some of our guests, you can check out DPN sister show, The Long Leash for Jim's extended conversations.

>> James Jacobson: [00:26:50] This week, you can hear my extended conversation with Dean Koontz and I learned some things that you may not know about Dean and what a massive dog lover he is. That's on The Long Leash. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:27:02] And follow Dog Edition in your favorite podcast app, so you can take us along on your dog walk next time. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:27:08] Next episode, we dig deep into one of the largest dog health studies in the U S and it's all about golden retrievers.

>> James Jacobson: [00:27:17] And we celebrate pride month with a story about the role of support dogs in the LGBTQ plus community. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:27:24] Until then head along to Dog Edition.com where you can leave us a voicemail and share your stories with us. Just click on that little button that you'll find at the bottom, right of every episode page. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:27:35] And check the show notes for links and information about the guests on this and all of our other episodes. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:27:41] Also, we are looking for correspondents as we grow this podcast and Dog Podcast Network. And so if you are content producer or a journalist or a podcaster, or an audio storyteller, perhaps a dog writer, Dean, who loves dogs, check out our 101 Dog Stories Contest with over $15,000 in prize money.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:28:05] And join our pack. Be sure to follow Dog Edition in your favorite podcast app, and tell a friend about the show. I'm Pamela Lorence and I'll see you at the dog park. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:28:14] I'm Caroline Winter, your resident news hound. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:28:16] And I'm James Jacobson. Thanks for listening today. And on behalf of all of us here at Dog Podcast Network, we wish you and your dog a very warm Aloha.