March 09, 2021
Dognapping Epidemic | Dogs: The Ultimate Drying Machines | Why Dogs Hump | Dog Edition #8

The pandemic has given rise to an epidemic of dognapping, and even Lady Gaga isn't immune. Also, the dog shake: you think it's cute, but engineers think it's miraculous. And finally, the psychology behind humping and other antics.

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We’re not the only ones obsessed with our dogs. Thieves, engineers, and behaviorists are, too.

Dognappers Target French Bulldogs

The brutal attack on Lady Gaga's dog walker during a dognapping caught our attention. Dognappings are on the rise as the pandemic stretches ... and French Bulldogs are a common target. Why? And how can we keep our dogs -- Frenchies and non-Frenchies -- safe? The founder of Short Noses Only Rescue Team (SNORT), Tara Bruno, joins us. A specialist in the needs of snufflers, she places Pugs, Frenchies, and Boston Terriers ... but her safety tips apply to any breed.

Dogs: The Ultimate Drying Machine

Next time your dog shakes himself, watch. What looks like an attempt to paint the walls with mud is actually a feat of engineering. Being able to shake yourself almost completely dry in 4 seconds is a survival instinct for dogs. But for scientists, it's something to emulate. David Hu, Professor of Mechanical Engineering and Biology at Georgia Tech University, explains. What you'll learn in this segment has been applied to everything from dryers to cameras!

What the Fluff?

Why do dogs get the zoomies? Are dogs really color blind? Why do dogs hump? Haylee Bergeland, expert on the human-animal relationship, knows the answers to these and many more head-scratchers. She joins us to translate the canine behaviors that perplex into plain English.


02:08 Oh La La, Frenchies Are Getting Dognapped!

02:52 Tara Bruno from S.N.O.R.T. Rescue Helps Us Understand Why.

05:40 How to Keep Your Dogs Safe

06:57 $500,000?! To Reward or Not to Reward

10:17 Science Experiment with Jim

11:32 Scientist and Author, David Hu Explains the Wet Dog Shake

13:19 The G-Force of the Wet Dog Shake

16:10 How Understanding the Wet Dog Shake Helps Humans

18:07 What the Fluff? With Haylee Bergeland, Professional Animal Trainer and Behavior Consultant.

20:21 Most Asked Question: Why Do Dogs Hump?

24:12 Find Out About Next Week’s Episode

About Tara Bruno and SNORT Rescue

Short Noses Only Rescue Team (SNORT) is an all-volunteer 501(c)3 non-profit rescue. Based in Hoboken, NJ, SNORT volunteers exclusively rescue brachycephalic dogs. These short-headed breeds have specific health challenges that make them difficult to place. SNORT educates, trains, and carefully matches snufflers with families to prevent unnecessary euthanasia. Countless humans and their French Bulldogs, Boston Terriers, English Bulldogs and Pugs benefit.

Learn more and support their work here:

About David Hu

David Hu is a Professor of Mechanical Engineering and Biology at Georgia Tech. He studies animal movements to learn how to improve human tools. The undulations of sandfish may seem like a trivial matter, a mere pretty sight ... but in the world of engineering and physics, the way an animal moves divulges tons of information. Insects can show us how to avoid crashes. Dogs can show us how to dry clothes quickly and efficiently. By watching animals in the lab, in the rainforest, and in the home, we can make more elegant devices. Even robots take their cues from the way animals leverage physical laws! Professor Hu is the author of How to Walk on Water and Climb Up Walls: Animal Movement and the Robots of the Future. His next book, also on animal movements, is a work in progress. In the meanwhile, follow him on Twitter for more fascinating insights.

How to Walk on Water and Climb up Walls: Animal Movement and the Robots of the Future

David Hu on Twitter

About Haylee Bergeland

Haylee Bergeland is Pet Health & Behavioral Editor at the digital magazine Daily Paws. An animal trainer and behaviorist, she has studied and trained animals of all kinds for a decade. Her greatest interest is the human-animal bond, so much so that she started her own nonprofit. The Iowa Human-Animal Bond Society (IHABS) helps train and certify therapy dogs. They also work with crisis intervention and response canine teams.

Daily Paws

Iowa Human-Animal Bond Society


>> James Jacobson:[00:00:05] Hello, I'm James Jacobson

Pam Lorence:[00:00:06] and I'm Pamela Lorence.

>> James Jacobson:[00:00:08] Welcome to Dog Edition. The first show designed for you to listen to while you walk your dogs. And if you like what you hear on today's dog walk, please subscribe.

Pam Lorence:[00:00:19] Just click that little button and follow Dog Edition so you never miss an episode. All right, Jim, did you know that when you step out of a shower, you've got about a pound of water on you?

>> James Jacobson:[00:00:32] That is an awkward transition. No, I did not know, but, uh, uh, I guess we're talking about my bathing habits today on Dog Edition? What does this have to

do with dogs?

 Well, you'll find out in a bit from David Hu, Professor of Mechanical Engineering and Biology at

Georgia Tech.

And also, after I'm done with the shower later in the show Daily Paws Editor, Haylee Bergeland helps us answer that age old question. Why do dogs

Haylee Bergeland:[00:01:02] hump?

Is my dog trying to make babies with another dog? Is my dog confused about who he


Pam Lorence:[00:01:09] But first I'm sure most people heard the news about Lady Gaga's French Bulldogs being dog napped. After her dog Walker was attacked and

>> James Jacobson:[00:01:17] shot.

 Thankfully, her dogs were returned and Ryan Fisher, the dog walker is recovering from that violent attack.

But this high

Pam Lorence:[00:01:26] profile dog napping has really brought to light a widespread issue. That seems to be getting worse since the pandemic.

>> James Jacobson:[00:01:33] Tara Bruno founder of SNORT Rescue, SNORT stands for short nose only rescue team helps us to understand what's going on here and what you can do to keep your pets safe.


Tara Bruno:[00:01:46] Lady Gaga's situation, her dog walker did nothing wrong. He was just walking the dogs and they were targeted.

>> James Jacobson:[00:01:52] So if you love dogs, as much as we do pause what you're doing, leash up your pup and let's take a walk. We've got a lot to talk about on today's episode of Dog Edition.

Pam Lorence:[00:02:04] Hey Pepper, you want to go for a walk. So lately it seems I can't look at social media or turn on the news without hearing another story about a dog being stolen. The past several

>> James Jacobson:[00:02:17] months, I've spoken to several heartbroken, French bulldog owners, San Francisco, Sarah Vorhaus is searching for Chloe, taken violently in broad daylight. He had a gun and he said, give me your dog. And then he punched me twice. Richmond police

Pam Lorence:[00:02:33] say home surveillance cameras

>> James Jacobson:[00:02:34] kicked on to record

Pam Lorence:[00:02:36] this dog

>> James Jacobson:[00:02:36] napping. Another dog stolen from a Houston pet store. The theft caught on surveillance cameras, The search is on for a

Pam Lorence:[00:02:42] brazen pair of thieves caught on camera, taking

>> James Jacobson:[00:02:45] off with two bulldog puppies.

This is happening all over the United States and the dogs all seem to be French Bulldogs. Why is that?

Tara Bruno:[00:02:53] French Bulldogs tend to be one of the top breeds that people want and what people or thieves see are dollar

Pam Lorence:[00:03:00] signs.

That's Tara Bruno, founder of SNORT Rescue an all volunteer non-profit rescue in the Northeast United States. French Bulldogs have ranked in the top five most popular dog breeds for the last few years. This is according to American Kennel Club, but also Tara says:

 they're very easy to

Tara Bruno:[00:03:18] just pick up and run away with, um, And especially because of COVID because there's such a high demand for dogs right now, they're even easier to sell and make some money. So it's really sad.

Pam Lorence:[00:03:30] SNORT Rescue specializes in. I'm going to get this wrong. It's break break. Do you know how to say this?

>> James Jacobson:[00:03:37] I think it's brachy brachiocephalic brachycephalic here we go. Say that five times fast. Brachy means

Tara Bruno:[00:03:45] short. And cephalic means

>> James Jacobson:[00:03:47] head.

Think Boston Terriers and Pugs and French Bulldogs and English Bulldogs. Aside from being an attractive target for dog thieves, there are a few things to know before bringing one of these dogs into your family.

Tara Bruno:[00:04:01] They come with a lot of health issues. And with that comes very high vet bills. You know, the Frenchies are more prone to back issues, but they're all prone to allergies.

>> James Jacobson:[00:04:12] Dogs have difficulty breathing, especially in hot weather. Like we have here in Hawaii, they often need medication and a special diet for their allergies. But still French bulldog puppies can cost anywhere from 1500 to $15,000, depending upon the number of puppies in the litter and the color of the fur.

Pam Lorence:[00:04:33] Yeah. So when a man in San Francisco tried to sell a pair of French bulldog puppies for $500, each it should have raised some red flags.

>> James Jacobson:[00:04:44] Just a few. And indeed the woman who bought one of the dogs for her daughters did have her doubts. She did some research and found her way to Doug Roenicke  who's two French bulldog puppies had been taken from his San Francisco home.

Doug Roenicke:

 I put the word out and people just started connecting. She bought this for her girls and knew it

David Hu:[00:05:07] was not right.

Pam Lorence:[00:05:09] Bruno says the increase in French bulldog thefts is scary and sad, but not surprising.

Tara Bruno:[00:05:16] You're talking on average 20, 25 pounds for these dogs, maybe 30 pounds. It's easy to pick up one under each arm and just take off. Um, they're also super friendly for the most part. Um, you know, 99% of them are just going to be like, okay, sure. I'll go along with you. Or, you know, if a thief has. A little piece of food, forget it, the dogs going

David Hu:[00:05:37] with them.

Pam Lorence:[00:05:40] So to keep your pet safe, Tara suggests making sure they're microchipped and that the microchip is registered. Also:


Tara Bruno:[00:05:47] running errands. Don't leave your dog tied outside a store while you go inside, don't leave the dog unattended in your yard, even if it's a fenced yard. And you think that people can't see, you know, some people know what kind of dogs you have and they can plan to steal the dog. Um, same holds true- don't leave the dog in your car. Definitely spay or neuter your dog, because if the dog is not spayed or neutered and someone thinks they can breed the dog, the dog could be sold for so much

>> James Jacobson:[00:06:14] more money.

This rash of dog thefts really is all about the money. The pandemic has created an increased demand for dogs on one end of the spectrum. And an increased in desperate need for the money on the other. It's a situation that has put dogs, and in some cases, their owners at risk, like this story from Fox five Atlanta:

A man was held up at gunpoint at a park on Mason Turner road. Police confirm his French bulldog was also stolen.

And this story from January of the brutal attack of Sarah Vorhaus in San Francisco:

He had a gun and he said, give me your dog. And then he punched me twice.

Sarah's French bulldog, Chloe is still missing. There is a $20,000 reward for her return. And in the case of Lady Gaga's dogs, the reward was $500,000. That lady Gaga offered

Wow, that's a

Pam Lorence:[00:07:11] lot of money. Do you think that these rewards perpetuate the problem?

>> James Jacobson:[00:07:18] That is a good question. Um, I think if one of them, I don't want dog nappers to come after my Kanga and Roo. Um, but they are microchipped. Um, I think that. You know, if something happened, the natural impulse is whatever it takes to get my, my, my fur baby back. But yeah, I think it's sort of one of these horrible things. I think you have to look at the systemic answers to the problem, uh, which, you know, again, it seems to be money. So I think there's some systemic things, but I can't tell someone who is subject to having their dog napped that you wouldn't post rewards.

Pam Lorence:[00:07:58] Yeah, I would do what I could do. Yeah. Yeah. I would do whatever I could also, I think to get my, my dogs back they're members of the family, how will, you know, how could I not, um, Well, when I asked her it's my babies. And when I asked that question of Tara, Tara, Bruno, uh, she thought maybe that's, you know, that's a possibility, but also recognizes that what's causing the increase in dog thefts is really a complex problem. And like us, if this happened to her:

Tara Bruno:[00:08:25] You know, if that happened to me and my dog was stolen, I would make sure that my reward was substantially greater than somebody might be able to sell my dog for, you know, if it's a French bulldog maybe a thousand dollar reward might not be enough because it could be sold for a thousand dollars.

Pam Lorence:[00:08:43] Uh, I'm thinking now I should get the value of my dogs assessed so I know how much of a reward I need to

>> James Jacobson:[00:08:48] offer.

 You know, you raise a really good point in property law in the laws in the United States, dogs are not considered part of the. What? You know, they're not people they're their property. And so they do have a value on them. And we need to do a story on, on a future episode of Dog Edition about this. But, you know, from a veterinary perspective in liability, they actually look at dogs as property and replacement value. So it's really, really sad, but I think Tara has it right.


Pam Lorence:[00:09:20] weird. Priceless, I would say priceless. How do you put a value on a, on, on a family member, but Oh, okay.

>> James Jacobson:[00:09:28] Unfortunately they're doing it, but if you are considering an expensive French bulldog for your family, uh, you know, buyer beware even better as Tara Bruno says:


Tara Bruno:[00:09:39] is to adopt don't shop. I'm happy Lady Gaga got her dogs back. Thank God. That was a happy ending. And that the dog walker is going to be okay. And you know, maybe this whole situation is bringing some light to, to a problem and, and, you know, people will be more

Pam Lorence:[00:09:54] vigilant.

To find out more about SNORT Rescue and how you can support their mission, check out our show

>> James Jacobson:[00:09:59] notes.

 When we come back, we get a science lesson from David Hu Professor of Mechanical Engineering and Biology at Georgia Tech. Now what does that have to do with dogs?

Stick around.

Pam Lorence:[00:10:11] You're listening to Dog Edition.

Welcome back to Dog Edition. Jim, when your dogs get wet from rain or, you know, swimming in the ocean or a bath, they shake, right.

>> James Jacobson:[00:10:26] Totally shake. And it's like really, really quick

Pam Lorence:[00:10:30] and messy.

Well, David Hu and messy. Well David Hu, Professor of Mechanical Engineering and Biology at Georgia Tech gave me a science lesson on the wet dog shake.

I want to kick off this segment with a little experiment. All right. Are you, can you be my Guinea pig, so to speak?

>> James Jacobson:[00:10:48] I will be your Guinea pig, but we're remote. So yes, let's do it.

You ready?

Pam Lorence:[00:10:54] All right. I'm going to ask you to shake your head twice as fast as you can, but it has to be within one second. Try and shake it out. oh, watch out for your headphones.


>> James Jacobson:[00:11:04] my headphones. Okay.

Pam Lorence:[00:11:06] I'm getting a headache.

How'd you feel?

>> James Jacobson:[00:11:11] A little dizzy? Uh, you know, like my headphones are shaking back and forth. That's that's tough.


Pam Lorence:[00:11:16] Yeah. David Hu:

David Hu:[00:11:17] As you know, humans, um, we don't have that much fur anymore. At least most of us and we don't, uh, can't shake. In fact, if you try to shake your head. Uh, the best you can get is twice per second, and you will not be able to achieve anything like a dog. You'll get really dizzy. and sick.

Pam Lorence:[00:11:32] But dogs on the other hand are experts at shaking, especially when they're wet.

David Hu:[00:11:40] Yeah. The dog shake. You know, to us, it kind of seems like maybe annoying or kind of cute when they come in and drench us. Um, but in terms of evolution, it's something that absolutely had to evolve for them to survive.

>> James Jacobson:[00:11:55] How animals have adapted and evolved their mechanics can lead to discoveries and inventions that will improve the lives of us humans. So David and a team of researchers set out to study the wet dog shake.

David Hu:[00:12:09] To understand how dogs are so effective at shaking off water. Um, we did this, what do we call a a comparative approach. We go to the Atlanta Zoo and we measured, um, around 33 different animals, not just dogs, but, um, you know, rats, mice, Guinea pigs, tigers, pandas all the way up. Uh, to understand all these animals that have for how do they, how do they get

Pam Lorence:[00:12:32] dry?

One thing David Hu and his research team discovered is that all of these animals shake in the same

David Hu:[00:12:38] way.

They basically stand on these four legs and they rotate their bodies back and forth. They can shake off the water um, in fractions of a second.

>> James Jacobson:[00:12:47] Using a high-speed camera to capture the shake, they determined that dogs can get rid of 70% of the water trapped in their fur, in four seconds. Woof.

David Hu:[00:12:58] It's fast.

 It's, it's an amazing number. Losing 70% of your water in four seconds is really good. You know, if you put your laundry in the washing machine and then, uh, you come out four seconds later, it's pretty much the same.

Pam Lorence:[00:13:12] To lose a comparable amount of water as dogs you'd have to spin that laundry dry for 30 to 40

>> James Jacobson:[00:13:18] minutes. It takes a lot of force for dogs to achieve this.

Think of it this way, the earth has a pretty high gravity and if you were to get into a car crash, for example, the number of Gs or the acceleration that you'd feel due to the force of gravity is about four to eight times Earth's gravity. The G-Force. Now when a dog is shaking, it's 20 to 50 times Earth's

David Hu:[00:13:43] gravity.

 It's a huge, huge amount of force. Um, and it could potentially damage the animals actually, if they aren't really careful. So we all noticed that they're closing their eyes shut really tightly, um, because it's actually a substantial of forces on their soft body parts.

Pam Lorence:[00:13:59] My dogs have buggy eyes. So, no, that concerns

>> James Jacobson:[00:14:03] me. I never knew that. I mean, I noted they closed their eyes. I didn't know that all dogs that's actually so cool.

Pam Lorence:[00:14:10] But to put this in perspective, the human limit for the amount of acceleration you can get is around 12 to 15 times Earth's

David Hu:[00:14:16] gravity.

Once you get above that, then, uh, your eyes actually start detaching from your retinas. Um, so it's actually kind of a mystery, how the dogs actually don't hurt themselves when they're shaking, shaking that quickly. I mean, they do seem a little bit dizzy sometimes if they shaken, because I'm sure their brains are just rattling around in there.

>> James Jacobson:[00:14:35] And to achieve the same amount of force as the big dogs, small dogs, like ours have to shake a lot

David Hu:[00:14:41] faster.

Imagine you're on a merry-go-round. If you're on the center of the merry-go-round, you don't really feel that much force.

But as you walk towards the outside farther and farther away from the center, you get lots and lots more force.

These animals are the same way. If you're an animal and you're trying to shake off your small dogs are really going to be working the hardest. And they are really going to be having to shake at higher frequencies. The big animals like bears and lions, they can just sort of sloppily, just shake a little bit in the water, just going to throw out, throw itself off.

Pam Lorence:[00:15:19] Dogs do the wet dog shake as a survival technique. Think about it. You step out of the shower with one pound of water on your body. You towel off, and maybe you dry your hair, but what if you just drip dried?

David Hu:[00:15:32] Water has a really large. What's called a heat of vaporization. That means it takes, if you want to actually boil that water off or evaporate off, it takes a huge amount of energy. I mean, you just think about if you go home, um, and you have wet clothes, you don't take off those clothes and you just let, let the clothes try to evaporate dry.

Pam Lorence:[00:15:48] Now imagine your dog's fur as those wet clothes. Let's do the math- for a wet 60 pound dog with one pound of water in its

David Hu:[00:15:57] fur:

 If you calculated, the dog would actually have to take a third of its daily calories. So an entire meal of just energy, just to heat off that water. If we were to just heat it out and heat it off without any kind of manual means.

>> James Jacobson:[00:16:10] No wonder they shake. Dogs are really good at getting dry and, you know, any time that an animal is really good at something, there's an idea there that can be used.

If you

David Hu:[00:16:19] have a fancy camera, one of these digital cameras, if you turn it on, you might see this sign that says, uh, sensor cleaning and what that's doing, it's basically doing a miniature what dog shake inside your camera. Uh, just spinning, uh, rotating quickly enough that any small particles get thrown off. And they're thinking about exploring these kinds of mechanisms for other, other kinds of devices.


>> James Jacobson:[00:16:42] is so cool because yeah, every time I turn on my DSLR, it does that. I had no idea I had my dog to thank for that. But notice David said miniature wet dog

David Hu:[00:16:50] shake.

Oh yeah. 50 GS on a camera would be a little bit too much. The dogs can really take a beating. Um, I think if they ever had any soft, soft robots, maybe they could sustain that. But you know, a lot of the, the forces that they, these animals experience, we really can't reproduce in our, our daily products.

Pam Lorence:[00:17:08] So I asked David about hairless animals. I know there are some hairless breeds of dogs and cats, you know, do they still have to do the wet dog shake?

David Hu:[00:17:17] One of them, we tested was a hairless Guinea pig, which we doused with water. Uh, and we expected the shake, but it just stood there shivering with a kind of an angry look on his face. That poor Guinea pig, probably doesn't like baths very

Pam Lorence:[00:17:29] much


>> James Jacobson:[00:17:30] sad. The poor Guinea pigs, but no Guinea pigs were killed in the making of it. And in that research, I'm sure they got a wet

Pam Lorence:[00:17:39] bit.

Thank you for being the Guinea pig with the experiment at the top of the segment. David Hu's book, How To Walk On Water and Climb Up Walls: Animal Movement and the Robots of the Future has his wet dog shake research, and all sorts of other examples of how scientists have studied animal movement. And he's writing a new book due out in the next year or so. So make sure to check out the show notes for information on that.

>> James Jacobson:[00:18:08] Haylee Bergeland knows a thing or two about dogs. She's worked with, trained and studied animals of all kinds for the past decade. She also works for a digital publication dedicated to pets.

For daily pause.

Haylee Bergeland:[00:18:22] Um, I serve as I'm the editor of pet health and behavior. So, any type of content we have that, um, really comes down to training, psychology, enrichment. So living well and understanding your pet well, um, is definitely something I'll have an opinion on.

>> James Jacobson:[00:18:44] Daily Paws has a popular column

Haylee Bergeland:[00:18:47] called What The Fluff which, uh, is easily the funnest thing to say, but also it's gotten me in trouble a couple times.

>> James Jacobson:[00:18:54] They get questions from anxious or curious dog owners about all sorts of topics.

Haylee Bergeland:[00:18:58] The weird, but really valid, uh, questions that I get asked by pet owners. Like

>> James Jacobson:[00:19:05] this one: can dog see color?

Haylee Bergeland:[00:19:08] Yes. So this one is really fun. Um, and the answer is yes. Traditionally, I think people have the idea that dogs are totally colorblind and, um, that's not technically true. Humans, There's many, uh, humans that have issues with red and green, um, and determining the differences between those and that would be red, green, colorblindness. Dogs vision kind of looks like that. Um, but that doesn't mean that their vision is totally devoid of all

>> James Jacobson:[00:19:41] color.

What are dog Zoomies?

Haylee Bergeland:[00:19:43] When we're talking about zoomies, what we're really talking about, what appears to be, uh, erratic activity that kind of happens out of nowhere is all of a sudden your dog gets a hair up their you know what and they decide to run around in crazy circles. Sometimes they're barking. Sometimes they end up chasing their own tail.

>> James Jacobson:[00:20:03] And why does

Haylee Bergeland:[00:20:04] that happen?

 Really? Um, a lot of times it's anticipatory in nature. It's that something exciting is going to happen or it's that relief moment of, Ooh, that wasn't great. But now I'm free from it. I'm fine. I'm alive. I feel good.

>> James Jacobson:[00:20:22] Of course, a question that has stumped and embarrassed dog owners for a very, very long time.

You know, it's

Haylee Bergeland:[00:20:30] funny. I laugh because it's probably like one of the number one questions I get asked. Everybody wants to ask it. Uh, but you know, whether or not they're comfortable with it.

Yeah. I'm

>> James Jacobson:[00:20:41] comfortable. And I bet you want to know the answer to why do dogs hump?

Haylee Bergeland:[00:20:49] Any dog can hump. Uh, the the sex, the age, um, it doesn't really matter. You know, you might find that in your lifetime with your dog you may never notice it right? Then there's always that real special guy, that little thing that came from the shelter that's had just a rough life and it's his go-to behavior, right? He humps everything.

>> James Jacobson:[00:21:15] Haylee points out that context is key. Are you at a crowded dog park where your dog might feel stressed or overly excited to play?

Haylee Bergeland:[00:21:29] You know, there can be dogs that hump to reduce stress.

>> James Jacobson:[00:21:35] And puppies will sometimes hump.

Haylee Bergeland:[00:21:37] When your puppy was outside, you know, they peed. If they felt really good, it was really good relief. Now they want to play. They don't know how to engage that with you. Those hormones are just going nuts. There's so much adrenaline and excitement happening and boom, they just start humping because their little brains that was that was their reposnse.

>> James Jacobson:[00:22:00] Or maybe your dog just wants to

Haylee Bergeland:[00:22:03] play.

Humping serves a function during play. Whenever we talk about any behavior we always consider what is the function before we actually just give it a broad, um, blanket label, right? So it could be play.

>> James Jacobson:[00:22:16] People often ask is humping a sign of aggression. Is this inappropriate play?

Haylee Bergeland:[00:22:22] You know, there's some context of where that could lead to bouts of aggression or, um, you know, probably more likely reactivity. Now, if you've got two dogs that are uncomfortable already, with what's happening and then you add that. Uh, basically humping in that scenario is not considered appropriate play. Right. You know, if the other dog gets upset, then it wasn't the type of behavior they wanted to engage

>> James Jacobson:[00:22:45] in.

And of course, many dog owners experience embarrassment when their dogs engage in this behavior.

Haylee Bergeland:[00:22:52] Remember:

dog behaviors are dog behaviors, no matter how you personally feel about them, the majority of them are quite natural and humping happens to be a very natural dog behavior in dog world. It's not, you know, if it was a human we'd be having a different

>> James Jacobson:[00:23:08] conversation here.

Well, thank you for bringing Dog Edition along with you on your walk, we will be back with another episode, but chances are that you and your dog will be taking a walk between now and then and we have something for you to

Pam Lorence:[00:23:29] listen to.

If you're interested in hearing more from some of our guests, please check out DPN sister show, the Long Leash.

>> James Jacobson:[00:23:36] You got to check out the episode that we just dropped. It's a conversation with Paul Owens, who is uh, the original dog whisper. We had him on last week's show. It's a really interesting conversation. We've received actually a substantial amount of mail about it because people have actually started implementing some of the techniques that he's been advocating for years and seeing some amazing results. I was delighted to get that. So make sure you check out The Long Leash with Paul Owens. We'll put a link in the

Pam Lorence:[00:24:07] show notes.

 And subscribe to Dog Edition so you can take us along on your dog walk next week.

>> James Jacobson:[00:24:12] On next week's episode, you'll hear from Martha Teichner . She is the Emmy award winning CBS news correspondent. She's been there since the 1970s. She currently works at CBS Sunday mornings. She has a new book out, actually, it's her first book and it's not about journalism. It's really about dogs and love affairs. It's called when Harry Met Minnie. And it is a love story of loss, of being in the right place at the right time, a love affair for New York and all the mysterious ways that fate has of bringing us together. It's an extraordinary book and an extraordinary conversation that is on the next episode of Dog

Pam Lorence:[00:24:54] Edition.

 And Dog Edition contributor Saskia Edwards brings us the story of Gobi, a scruffy homeless little dog who earned her name after following ultra marathoner Dion Leonard on an extreme test of endurance in the Gobi Desert, a bond was created and a promise was made. Dion wanted to rescue the stranded little dog and take her home to Scotland. That's when the true test of endurance began.

>> James Jacobson:[00:25:19] Dog Podcast network is for dog lovers by dog lovers. And that means that we want to hear from you.

 You can

Pam Lorence:[00:25:26] check the show notes for links and information on how to reach us, including our old school recorded listener line, where you can call in to share your dog stories with us.

Call eight six six T A L K Dog. Eight six six Talk Dog.

>> James Jacobson:[00:25:43] You can also let us know what you're thinking by going to our website, Dog and in the. bottom, right there's a little blue microphone. Leave us a voice message and it could appear on a future episode. We're also looking for correspondence as we grow this podcast and dog podcast network.

And so if you are a content producer who loves dogs and that could be a journalist, a podcaster a audio engineer, Please check out our hundred and one dog stories, contest worth over $15,000 in prize money. You can learn all about that on our website at dog podcast

Pam Lorence:[00:26:21] And be sure to join our pack. Subscribe to dog edition and your favorite podcast app. And tell a friend about the show I'm Pamela Lorence and I might just see you at the dog park.

>> James Jacobson:[00:26:31] And I'm James Jacobson. I want to thank you for listening today on behalf of all of us here at Dog Podcast Network we wish you and your dog, a warm Aloha.