June 1, 2021

Dogs Get Legal Rights In The UK | A Visit To The Museum Of The Dog | Dog Edition #20

Dogs Get Legal Rights In The UK | A Visit To The Museum Of The Dog | Dog Edition #20

Dogs are finally getting the recognition they deserve, both in law and in art.


Dogs have shown consideration for our feelings over thousands of years. Have we reciprocated? The UK is, when it comes to legal matters … and an art museum in NYC is when it comes to art.  

Dogs Get Legal Rights in the UK

Be warned, Cruella! Rates of illegal puppy theft and smuggling. skyrocketed in the last year, and the UK is cracking down. New animal welfare plans are in place ... lawmakers must now consider the wellbeing of dogs and other animals when making laws.

AKC Museum of the Dog

Pam visits the high-tech fine art museum, the AKC Museum of the Dog in New York City. Recently relocated to 101 Park Avenue, this super-swank spot is the Louvre of dog art. Their collection preserves important art featuring dogs as subjects ... not just for their beauty, but for their ability to show breed evolution over the years. There's a bouncy virtual dog named Molly, interactive exhibits, and rotating special collections. You can even find out what breed of dog you most resemble.

The Hydrant

Jim, Pam, and Caroline stop by the hydrant to sniff out the latest dog gossip, innuendo, @jokes, and notes.

Chapters

0:00 Introduction

1:36 Dogs Get Legal Rights in the UK

10:16 AKC Museum of the Dog

18:57 The Hydrant

24:14 On the Next Episode

CLAIRE BASS

Animal welfare is not just a professional crusade for Executive Director of Humane Society International UK, Claire Bass, it is very personal. Her dog Henry, a Golden Retriever mix, started life in a dog meat farm in South Korea, before she rescued him and brought him home to London. Henry is her daily reminder of the change organisations like hers can make for all animals. In her role with HSI/UK she leads strategic planning for the organisation’s national campaigns, works with colleagues overseas on priority campaigns, like the dog meat trade and street dog welfare and manages the donor and supporter care team and oversees staff fundraising in the UK. She also chairs the Animal Welfare Strategy Group and is a lead author and strategist on a joint campaign to government on animal rights post Brexit.

t: @sea_l_bass

t: @HSIGlobal

ln: linkedin.com/in/claire-bass-31656612

f: https://www.facebook.com/hsiglobal

DAVID BOWLES

As head of public affairs for the RSPCA UK, David Bowles is passionate about representing the oldest and largest animal organisation in the UK which has been at the centre of changing peoples' attitudes to animals and improving animal standards for nearly 200 years. David has worked with the RSPCA for more than 25 years and is also on the Board of the Association of Cat and Dog Homes and the Canine and Feline Scientific Group, the UK government's policy advisors on cat and dog issues. He’s a lover and defender of all animals, but especially his cat, who he openly admits tells him what to do and he obeys.

t: @RSPCA_official

t: @DavidBowles21

f: https://www.facebook.com/RSPCA

ln: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-bowles-716b8119/?originalSubdomain=uk

ALAN FAUSEL, Executive Director & CEO AKC Museum of the Dog

Alan Fausel brings with him over 30 years of art-world experience as a scholar, curator, and appraiser. His curatorial career began at the Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco in the department of European Sculpture and Decorative Art. He was then appointed curator of the Frick Art Museum in Pittsburgh. He has been with the auction houses Butterfields in San Francisco and Doyle and Bonhams in New York since 1990. Mr. Fausel has been a regular on the paintings table of ANTIQUES ROADSHOW since the series' first season in 1997. He taught at New York University in the Graduate School of Arts Education from 1999-2017. He is a frequent lecturer to groups including the Appraiser's Association of America.

https://museumofthedog.org/

Molly Behind-the-Scenes

Here’s What We Found at The Hydrant

Grant’s Whiskey

Is it Okay to Hug Your Dog?

Sally the Civil War Dog

Transcript

>> James Jacobson: [00:00:00] Hello, I'm James Jacobson in Hawaii. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:00:07] And I'm Pamela Lorence in San Francisco. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:00:09] And I'm Caroline Winter in Adelaide. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:00:12] Welcome to Dog Edition, the first show designed for you to listen to while you walk your dogs. Today's episode is called Dogs Get Legal Rights in the UK. So I am imagining we're going to start seeing dogs driving and being able to vote. Is that right?

>> Caroline Winter: [00:00:29] Not quite Jim, but they do now have a paw at the table because the UK, because the UK government is going to be changing its laws to make sure that dogs and other animals are taken into consideration when laws are made by those at the top. Now it's all part of a new animal welfare plan, which is also going to crack down on illegal puppy smuggling and puppy theft, which have both skyrocketed over the past year.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:00:55] And then later on in the show, I talk about how I got to travel to New York City to do one of my favorite things, visit a museum. And it was of one of my favorite things, dogs. So I got to see the AKC Museum of the Dog and you get to come along on my journey with me a little bit later. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:01:12] Sounds like so much fun, Pam, and as always stop by The Hydrant with us at the end of the show for a rundown on some of the doggy headlines that captured our attention this week.

>> James Jacobson: [00:01:22] So if you love dogs as much as we do pause what you're doing, leash up your pup, and let's take a walk. We've got a lot to talk about on today's episode of Dog Edition.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:01:34] Pepper, want to go for a walk? 

>> James Jacobson: [00:01:37] When I stare into my dog's eyes, I have no doubt that I see love staring right back at me. Of course, it could just be a look of where's my treat, but I'm going to go with the love thing, right? Because we know that our dogs can experience all kinds of feelings from pain and fear to contentment and joy. Animal sentience that, that's the term and it is the capacity for animals to feel or perceive the world around them. And it is scientifically proven, but recognizing that fact and taking it into consideration when governments make laws, why that is a whole new conversation. So the United kingdom's move recently to join only a handful of other countries in recognizing animals in sentient law is a big deal, especially since the legislation will underpin a new plan to improve the welfare and treatment of animals, with illegal puppy farms and puppy theft high on the agenda. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:02:41] Every year thousands of puppies are smuggled across Central and Eastern Europe and sold to unsuspecting dog lovers in the UK. Secretly filmed by undercover staff from the dog's trust, this is one of a network of grim Eastern European puppy farms behind a multi-million pound trade.  But stories like this from ITV news have become more frequent as the demand for puppies has skyrocketed during the pandemic.

>> David Bowles: [00:03:09] Coronavirus has really seen a surge in demand for dogs, for people because they they've wanted companionship. They wanted exercise when they're locked down. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:03:18] David Bowles is head of public affairs with the RSP CA in the UK. 

>> David Bowles: [00:03:23] So what we've seen is because the UK market has not been able to supply that demand, prices have doubled, dog theft has doubled, um, imports from other countries have doubled. And this has been a real problem for us, not just because we're seeing dogs coming in, that's been produced in conditions, which would be illegal here, but we're also seeing more diseases coming into the, to the UK. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:03:48] Dog welfare charity, Dogs Trust estimates the puppy smuggling trade soared by more than 60% in 2020. Many of those traded illegally are as young as five to eight weeks old. They have major health or behavioral problems as a result. And they're being sold for extortionate prices. 

>> David Bowles: [00:04:08] Unfortunately buying a puppy is a very emotional purchase. And even though the RSPCA is putting out lots of information about don't trust people, don't hand over large amounts of money in, in used bank notes on service stations, people still do that because once they see the puppy, they fall in love or they think they're going to rescue it and give it a better home. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:04:28] Long-held calls by animal welfare groups to stand out. The practice have now been heard with the UK government promising better protections for pets, farm animals, and wildlife at home and abroad in its action plan for animal welfare. What's being promised is ambitious, says David, but achievable.

>> David Bowles: [00:04:48] What the, RSPCA believes is that this is really a once in a lifetime opportunity. The government has said, because they know that it plays well with their voters. They know that the public loves animals and they know the public will vote for better animal welfare conditions. That's why they're doing it. And what we hope is that we will take this once in a generation opportunity, uh, revamp all of our legislation, some of which, as I say, it goes back 60, 70 years, um, and give the UK a, a framework of animal welfare laws, which are fit for purpose and fit for the next generation.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:05:24] On the list of changes to puppy import rules, a crack down on pet theft through a government task force. Another attempt to ban electronic collars, and the compulsory micro-chipping of cats. The British government also wants to end the export of live animals for slaughter, ban the import of hunting trophies, improve standards in zoos and give police more power to protect farm animals.

>> Claire Bass: [00:05:49] Well, the action plan is, is very exciting. You know, it's been a long time since we've had such a broad set of commitments from the UK government, uh, towards the protection of animals, welfare, and it covers all animal issues. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:06:04] Claire Bass is executive director of Humane Society International UK. For her there's one crucial concept underpinning the government's plan. And that's a law recognizing animals as sentience beings who are aware of feelings and sensations. 

>> Claire Bass: [00:06:20] So they have the capacity to have feelings, both positive, such as pleasure and joy, contentment, and also of course, negatives, which is as, as fear and pain and stress. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:06:33] The UK joins a list of countries across the EU, as well as New Zealand, Canada, and Columbia in recognizing animal sentience. Although the wording, interpretation, and enforceability of each nation's legislation means it's still a very gray area. But what is black and white is that British policymakers will be scrutinized by an animal sentience committee on whether animal welfare is considered during their decision-making. 

>> Claire Bass: [00:07:00] It enshrines, uh, that principle in law, um, and it attaches to that, uh, recognition a requirement for government to take animal's welfare needs into account when they're making and implementing policies. And that's not just policies, you know, that very clearly directly affect animals, such as perhaps, you know, uh, farming policies, but any policy that governments, um, you know, considering

>> Caroline Winter: [00:07:33] The proposed reforms are no doubt, a win for Humane Society International UK, and the dozens of other animal welfare groups that have fought for change for years. But Claire's crusade isn't just professional, it's very, very personal. 

>> Claire Bass: [00:07:48] Henry is, uh, he's four years old, now he's a golden retriever and mix. Um, and he started out his life in a dog meat farm in South Korea, just outside Seoul. Um, he grew up, uh, in a cage that was about a meter by two meters in size, uh, which he shared with his two sisters and his mother, 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:08:12] Henry is sitting on Claire's feet in London while we chat, worlds away from his start in life like hundreds of thousands of dogs in South Korea caught up in a centuries old practice.

>> Claire Bass: [00:08:25] His fate was a horrific one, you know, unimaginable to those of us who share our lives with dogs. Uh, and that was to be turned into soup, which is eaten by a decreasing number of South Korean people, um, typically sort of older generations. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:08:42] Claire rescued Henry while working in South Korea with local groups as part of Humane Society international's dog meat closure program. 

>> Claire Bass: [00:08:50] Henry is, um, is a daily reminder of, of, you know, the change we can make for all articles that their individual stories are really important. And they're certainly helping change hearts and minds. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:09:03] Changing the hearts and minds of animal lovers and governments alike.

>> James Jacobson: [00:09:09] That is such a great piece Caro. I would hope that the United Kingdom will just be the start and we're going to see this around the world. What's happening around the world in terms of these animal rights? 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:09:20] Interesting, Jim, it changes depending on, on where you look. So the EU has been at the forefront of this for some time and different countries within the EU are slightly changing the wording so that, you know, it might be more or less, um, in favor of, of animals in this space. Um, the U S as I understand Oregon, the state of Oregon has, uh, has enacted this. Um, and there's lots of conversations being had in other states, but couldn't find anything to say that they, you know, ticked it off as a priority. And here in Australia, the Australian capital territory, where Canberra our capital, um, is the only jurisdiction that has animal sentience law, or regulations of recognizing animals in its legislation.

>> James Jacobson: [00:10:03] Well, we will continue to follow this as these laws get passed across the world, because clearly they're really important. We'll be right back. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:10:12] You're listening to Dog Edition. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:10:14] Welcome back to Dog Edition. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:10:16] Dogs were once depicted on the walls of caves. After that, during the middle ages and the Renaissance, they appeared in hunting scenes as working dogs. Eventually our canines became companions and they were represented in art on the laps of owners and at their feet dutifully in their homes. After 1873, the American Kennel Club introduced illustrations of breed standards. And that is when solo dog portraits became popular. The 19th century brought us portraits of people with their dogs by artists like John Singer Sargent. And a more contemporary example of dogs in art history would have to be Keith Haring's most iconic image, The Barking Dog with its minimalist outline style and bright primary colors. Those first started appearing in New York subway drawings in the early 1980s. So it is no surprise that a museum exists to document and preserve the artwork featuring the muse that we call dog.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:11:22] Head Northwest on east 41st street toward Pershing Square. Driving north on Park Avenue in New York city you come to the Pershing Square Viaduct and a beautiful view of the Southern side of Grand Central Terminal. Turn onto east 40th and you're met with a silhouettes of dogs running along the facade of a building, beckoning you into the AKC Museum of the Dog. 

>> Alan Fausel: [00:11:46] The AKC started in 1884, not shortly after that they started collecting paintings and sculptures of prominent important dogs. And by prominent important artists. The AKC collection is upstairs and it's uh, about 300 plus items. And the museum collections about 1700 items.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:12:09] You're going to find a velvet wall hanging depicting dogs playing poker here. Although the AKC Museum of the Dog's director, Alan Fausel sold two dogs playing poker paintings from Cassius Marcellus Coolidge's 1903 series for $590,400. This was at Doyle New York's annual Dogs in Art Auction, when Mr. Fausel was Senior Vice-president of Paintings there. He is deeply embedded in the world of dog art.

>> Alan Fausel: [00:12:39] I've worked for 17 years selling several hundred dog paintings a year. So I know where most of the bodies are buried. And one of my favorite paintings I ever sold was this one by Charles Olivier de Penne, a french artist of Hounds and Snow. It's not only a great dog painting, it's also it's, it's a great painting itself. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:12:57] The painting is on a beveled panel and depicts four hounds clustered together in the snow. In the foreground. In the background is a figure leaning against a fence. The artist, Charles Olivier de Penne's love of animals, especially dogs and scenes of the hunt, was to be the driving force behind his art. These are the types of important pieces Mr. Fausel keeps his eye on in the hopes of adding to the collection. 

>> Alan Fausel: [00:13:22] There are, there a good half dozen I'm tracking and talking to people. Yes. Sort of. I know where they are, what I try to bring to the table, being an art historian and also in the auction world, having a very good knowledge of what is good, better and best. I think one of the things I'm looking at is making sure that the pieces have certain amount of artistic quality and, um, important documentary quality. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:13:54] The museum has a mission to preserve and document these works of art for the art history, but also from the American Kennel Club perspective to show the progression of the breed standards. There are 197 breeds recognized by the AKC who codified standards back in the 1850s.

>> Alan Fausel: [00:14:12] This is a pug of around 1790 or so. And, um, you wouldn't recognize it as his legs are much longer as much of a muzzle here. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:14:24] The Pug by the artist, Richard Ramsey Reinagle looks very different from the pugs we see today. Portraits like this one can be used by breeders to over time return dogs back to the original standard. It made me curious about how my two Cavalier King Charles Spaniels may have looked earlier in the genetic line. 

>> Alan Fausel: [00:14:44] Much like your cavalier, the muzzle would become so pushed in and they made a concerted effort in the 1920s to say, they took some paintings, do you have a cavalier that looks like this with more of muzzle, we're going to breed them back.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:14:59] As I wander around the AKC Museum of the Dog, I'm struck by the thought that this museum is for serious art history enthusiasts. A thought confirmed by the 1677 Abraham Hondius masterpiece hanging on a wall on the first floor. 

>> Alan Fausel: [00:15:15] The Amsterdam Dog Market is probably one of the top five dog paintings in the world. It's, there's nothing quite like it. And it plays displays over 50 dogs. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:15:25] I'm tempted to test my knowledge of breeds as I look at the painting. On the lower level, you see a kennel with all sorts of dogs in various states of play. There's a litter of puppies in the scene. On the top tier, you see the transactions taking place. There's a woman looking for a lap dog 

>> Alan Fausel: [00:15:42] and she has a variety of little small dogs that she's looking at here. So we assume this is probably much like a advertisement or shop sign of the day for a, a dog breeder. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:15:53] While the art in the museum is serious, the museum itself has a playful side that should appeal to all ages of dog lover. Step up to the Find Your Match interactive exhibit to see what breed of dog you most look like. 

>> Alan Fausel: [00:16:08] And then you look at the camera, make sure your face is here, and then you take a photograph and say, woof. There you are. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:16:18] Oh, it's lovely picture. 

>> Alan Fausel: [00:16:19] Accept that, and it goes through all 197 breeds. It tells you which one you like and you look like a Labrador.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:16:25] Well, I am cute as a Labrador. I imagine this would be very popular. Yeah. I'm glad I'm a lab. Or play fetch upstairs with Molly.

>> Alan Fausel: [00:16:35] Molly. It's all virtual. Molly, watch me. Molly, come. Oh good girl. Oh. And then you get to throw the ball. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:16:50] The virtual dog, Molly is actually a 10 month old lab named River who was filmed wearing a Mocap or motion capture suit with 360 degrees of cameras. There's a YouTube video of how this interactive exhibit was created, that's worth a watch. We'll add a link to that in the show notes. 

>> Alan Fausel: [00:17:10] The kids love this. You asked about who our audience is, children, youngsters loved Molly. The millennials love Find Your Match. The adults love everything in between, but it's a part of a education process. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:17:25] The scope of the collection and the accompanying archives truly make this enjoyable experience and education. 

>> Alan Fausel: [00:17:32] Yeah, the collection of the museum is probably the best in the world, but combined with the AKC collection, there's nothing in the dog world that would touch this. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:17:41] Now after visiting, I can't help but wonder if my dogs think I look like a Labrador retriever. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:17:49] Convinced me. I got to go see that museum. I got to get on an airplane and see that. That sounds so cool because I, of course I want to find out what dog I most resemble. Now, I think that I look like a Jack Russell Terrier. But I don't know. We'll see what the computer says. What do you think, Caro? What is, what is the wise computer going to pick for your breed?

>> Caroline Winter: [00:18:11] Oh, so I kind of think, and I have my hair straight most days, but it's actually really curly and there are days when I think I actually look like Harvey, my groodle, my golden doodle. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:18:23] Well, we are supposed to resemble our dogs. Isn't that a isn't that a thing?

>> Caroline Winter: [00:18:28] Yeah, we are, you're right. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:18:30] Well, and you've seen some of these great, uh, photo documentaries that were, you know, they, they showed the dog and the person, they were like, oh my gosh, of course, they're of course they belong together. I wonder if the museum will be showing some of those. Did you see anything like that? 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:18:44] No, only, only very important works of art, No, uh side-by-side comparisons of, you know, celebrity dogs versus celebrity people or anything like that. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:18:54] You got to go to Facebook for that. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:18:55] Yeah, exactly. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:18:58] Now it's time to stop by the hydrant to take a rundown on some of the doggy headlines that captured our attention this week.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:19:05] Before we do that, speaking of hydrant, I have to ask Caroline, did do, do you have them have to know, do you have them in Australia and are they called fire hydrants? 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:19:15] So, we do and they are called fire hydrants, but they're not like the traditional fire hydrants in the U S or the ones that I grew up watching on TV, the big red ones that sit above ground.

Right. Right, right. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:19:28] Yellow. Yeah. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:19:29] Oh, yellow. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:19:32] Yellow, especially because you know, they, they turned yellow after the dogs visiting.

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:19:36] Where do your dogs pee? 

>> James Jacobson: [00:19:37] Where are you at? Where are your hydrants? 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:19:40] Well, as I said, previous in the previous episode, they pee anywhere and everywhere, but not on hydrants because they sit below ground. So when the fire, yeah. When the firefighters and the fire trucks turn up, they open a latch in the ground and that's where they plug their hoses in. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:19:58] Oh guys, that means the hydrants are down under. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:20:02] Boom.

>> James Jacobson: [00:20:05] Okay. Caroline, what has caught your attention in the news this week? 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:20:08] Well, Jim, I'm a hugger from way back, so COVID and social distancing has really made it hard for me. Luckily though, I've been able to hug my dog. But I was reading this week and it seems that, that might not have been so lucky for him. I came across in an article, whether it's okay to hug your dog and the answer surprised me. I wonder if it's going to surprise you too. So studies have shown that when humans and dogs interact in a positive way, oxytocin levels increase like in humans, but on the flip side, other researchers found that for a dog, while interacting is one thing, hugging or restraint, which is kind of what they feel from you as a human might cause fear or stress and, you know, cause them to lash out and maybe bite. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:20:57] One of our dogs feels that way and the other dog is a hugger. So it's just like people, not everyone. Yeah. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:21:03] Not everyone's a hugger. The thing is which I thought was interesting that the traditional human sort of two arm, hug around the neck isn't quite the one that your dog wants. And I have tried this multiple times on Harvey and he has a run for the hills, but that's because human arms around their upper bodies might just seem it's instinctively for them to fight or fret or flee. And so that's what happens. And so instead of hugging the dog, you can show affection by other ways, of course, by playing ball, by playing with toys, et cetera, et cetera. So I might have to try that one on Harvey instead. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:21:38] Oh, I'm going to have to change some of my behaviors. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:21:42] I dunno, Kanga still gonna, Kanga approaches us for hugs basically even putting her, her paws around our neck, but Roo not at all the other, totally like, I, I think that Roo feels that she's being attacked and constrained. So to each dog their own opinion on hugging. That is really cool. Pam, what'd you see this week? 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:22:03] Oh, I learned about this dog in Scotland named Rocco. It's a one-year old Cocker spaniel, and Rocco has a job at Grant's Whiskey. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:22:12] Grant's whiskey, meaning a, a whiskey company. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:22:15] Yeah. Whiskey Distillery, and a Rocco is quality control, a quality control expert. Um, yeah. Yeah. So, so Rocco sniffs, the wood caskets to pick up the scent of anything, that's just not quite right as the whiskey matures and then alerts the owners of Grant's Whiskey when something seems off. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:22:38] That isn't where I thought you were going with that, but that's much better. Otherwise we'd have to call the, we'd have to get back into the legal rights of dogs, not to be forced to get drunk on, on the, on the job. I love that. So here in the United States, we just celebrated Memorial Day where we look at our fallen soldiers and I was looking for stories related to dogs and, and, and, and, and the military. And I found this wonderful story of Sally who was a dog during the Civil War. She was the mascot for the 11th infantry of the Pennsylvania regimen. And, she was an incredibly loyal dog and she was a constant companion in battle. She was actually at the Battle of Gettysburg and they thought she had perished and they went and looked for her for days. They finally found her and she was guarding some of the soldiers who had fallen because she would not leave their side. And, but the story doesn't end there because Sally was later on depicted in a monument when these civil war monuments that you see everywhere. And, uh, she, there's a normal soldier on a horse at the top of it. And then if you look down at the bottom, there is a sculpture of Sally looking up at the soldier. So dogs have been in war for a long time and, uh, loyal companions everywhere. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:24:01] That's a beautiful, beautiful story. And you made me think of some of the, um, the dogs that we've had that have been honored as a, you know, as part of our fallen soldiers in Australia, too. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:24:14] Well, that is all we have time for today. I'd like to thank you for bringing Dog Edition along with you on your walk. We will be back next week with another episode, but chances are you and your dog will be taking a walk between now and then and we have something else for you to listen to. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:24:33] If you're interested in hearing more from some of our guests, please check out DPN sister show The Long Leash for Jim's extended conversations.

>> James Jacobson: [00:24:42] This week, you can hear my conversation with dog behaviorist, Steve Dale. 

>> Caroline Winter: [00:24:47] And follow Dog Edition in your favorite podcast app so you can take us along on your dog walk next time. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:24:53] On the next episode of Dog Edition, we meet a woman who combined her celebrity dog hotel business with her mission. To handle large scale dog rescues.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:25:05] And we investigate if a bulldog really is tougher than a Maltese when it comes to pain sensitivity, or if it's just how we perceive them. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:25:13] Visit Dog Edition.com. There is a button on the bottom, right of every episode page so that you can easily leave us a voicemail and share your stories and thoughts with us. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:25:24] And check the show notes for links and information about the guests on this episode. 

>> James Jacobson: [00:25:28] We are looking for correspondants as we continue to grow this podcast and Dog Podcast Network. So if you are a content producer or a journalist or a podcast or an audio storyteller, and you love dogs, check out our Hundred and One Dog Stories Contest with over $15,000 in prize money.

>> Caroline Winter: [00:25:50] Join our pack. Be sure to follow Dog Edition in your favorite podcast app and tell a friend about the show. I'm your resident news hound, Caroline Winter. 

>> Pamela Lorence: [00:26:00] Nice. And I'm Pamela Lorence see you at the dog park.

>> James Jacobson: [00:26:04] I think I know her sign off. I'm James Jacobson. I want to thank you for listening today. On behalf of all of us here at Dog Podcast Network, we wish you and your dog a very warm Aloha.